gsh: (Short Hair)
[personal profile] gsh
I find myself conflicted over the two University of Oklahoma students who got expelled. Yes, they said some awful things, but being expelled from a state school seems like a potential violation of their first amendment rights. I may not agree with what they say, etc. Beside, racists are some of the people most in need of learning.

Date: 2015-03-10 09:19 pm (UTC)
reedrover: (Summer)
From: [personal profile] reedrover
Interesting perspective.
I'm more concerned with the trend of using social condemnation as the basis for legal action.

Date: 2015-03-10 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'd assume that the folks most in need of access to higher education are people from historically oppressed and under-represented social groups, not a bunch of white boys who never learned that they don't have a great out of consequences free card from the constitution. The school is not obligated to provide them with a platform, nor to tolerate the presence of hate speech that makes the school less welcoming for minority students. I don't feel any sense of conflict over this whatsoever.

Date: 2015-03-11 02:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yup, this is the way it is. People do, in fact, have free speech, as these students proved. People are not invulnerable from the negative things that happen to them because of how they choose to express themselves.

Date: 2015-03-11 03:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And I'm going to worry about whether or not the poor little racists get a second chance sometime significantly after everyone else gets a decent first one.

Date: 2015-03-11 03:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm disinclined to care if jackasses get a second chance, no matter when it might be.

Date: 2015-03-11 10:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
No, that isn't what I'm saying, and that isn't what happened.

What happened was that they, as a group representing the frat, made and posted publicly a video containing quite a lot of hateful speech. (I've not listened to the video, and so I'm assuming it only goes to the level of hateful speech, not to the level of hate speech, as then they'd have been charged as that's illegal.) Expressing themselves in such a manner so publicly likely goes against the school's student behavior code of ethics, as promoting racist and hateful ideas, even when not illegal, is socially repugnant. As students, they agreed to follow the college's student behavior policies or face the consequences. Expulsion is a consequence.

And, state funded colleges are not acting as representatives of the governmental legal system, but they do have a social mandate to ensure their students act in such a way as to not create a hostile environment for others.

Date: 2015-03-11 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I would assume the school has a policy to allow expelled students to petition for readmission at some later date, and upon proving that the reasons for the expulsion are no longer at issue. I am fine with a school expelling students who create a hostile environment for other students. It may be what they need to realize how horrible what they did was.

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